It’s been a long time since I’ve published an entry and I very much appreciate your patience waiting for an update…

In the months since my interview with Tony Denison, we’ve had a hiatus (much shorter than usual as a result of last year’s strike) and in early December we re-gathered in our writers’ room and began developing stories for season five. As I write this introduction, it’s January 20th and we have four episodes broken and being outlined by their respective writers – and we all look forward to resuming production in March.

As many of you know, airing of the episodes that were shot in September and October will begin next Monday, January 26th – so it seemed like an appropriate time to sit down and take a look back at these shows with the whole group assembled: James Duff, Steven Kane, Michael Alaimo, Duppy Demetrius, Rick Wallace, Ken Martin, Leo Geter and myself.

Not incidentally, I’d like to encourage all of you tuning in to next Monday’s show to stick around and check out the brilliant new TNT series “Trust Me,” created by our good friends Hunt Baldwin and John Coveny with the help of executive producers Greer Shephard and Michael Robin.

With no further ado…

ADAM BELANOFF: It’s Tuesday, January 13th at approximately 11 AM and we’ve gathered to talk about five episodes – #411 through #415 – which will be airing on TNT –

JAMES DUFF: -- starting January 26th at nine o’clock, eight o’clock Central and Mountain.

ADAM BELANOFF: This is true. Now let me start out by asking James – what was our aim in this last third of the fourth season and do you feel it was accomplished?

JAMES DUFF: I think our aim in the last third of the season was to wrap up our meditation on power and come to some conclusions about what’s the most powerful thing in our daily lives. We ended up drawing what Brenda’s conclusion was, maybe not what ours personally was – but what made her feel ultimately most powerful in her daily life. And I think that’s the way she settles her engagement with Fritz, the way that particular story turns out.

ADAM BELANOFF: Let’s speak generally – since we don’t want to reveal too many particulars for viewers – and talk about the episode I wrote, “Good Faith,” at the end. Let’s begin with #412 – “Junk In The Trunk” – written by Leo Geter and Duppy Demetrius. Guys, can you talk about how the episode came together?

LEO GETER: It has to be discussed broadly – without giving too much away.

JAMES DUFF: Considering the nature of the deceased, it could be very broad. It was about the power of fantasy. And about the mirage of something better than what we have.

DUPPY DEMETRIUS: The grass is always greener…

JAMES DUFF: Yes. The mirage of something better than what we have, not appreciating what we have and wanting more or wanting something that is unnatural or unreasonable in some way.

DUPPY DEMETRIUS: Unrealistic.

JAMES DUFF: How without doing the hard work that’s necessary to obtain it can lead to disaster. In this case, even murder.

LEO GETER: It makes you vulnerable too. Makes you blinded to what really matters. People can exploit that hole.

JAMES DUFF: Exactly. And there was a mirage, the mirage this guy had of a life.

ADAM BELANOFF: I think we can tell viewers that the episode begins with the body of a very large person – grossly obese –

DUPPY DEMETRIUS: An understatement.

JAMES DUFF: Morbidly obese.

ADAM BELANOFF: -- Found dead in the trunk of a car. It’s a horrific scene.

DUPPY DEMETRIUS: The power of trans fat.

ADAM BELANOFF: Clearly. But talking about our culture and attaining what we don’t have and beauty and looks and such – we chose a very specific way of addressing these things. What did focusing on an obese victim in particular give us?

LEO GETER: I think – I forget the term – but it perfectly illustrates the pressures that people feel they’re under to conform to some sort of ideal of happiness. What it requires for looking good – feeling good, having an attractive partner. Sailing off into the sunset. That kind of commercial package of happiness is something that people internalize to a point where it really does become delusional. Because it’s not something you can really attain every day of your life. And it’s a spiritual vacuum.

ADAM BELANOFF: So issues of self-image are extremely germane to the larger themes of this episode.

RICK WALLACE: In the spectrum of the fantasies that everyone has from somebody who’s morbidly obese - not exactly what we expect to see on the fashion plate – to everyone in the show.

JAMES DUFF: To somebody who believes they can commit the perfect crime. Also, it’s about staring at something and not seeing it. Looking for something so intently that you don’t see what’s actually right in front of you.

ADAM BELANOFF: In terms of the production, there were some very unusual challenges…

LEO GETER: Finding a location where you can sink a telephone pole is extremely challenging. We found that out.

RICK WALLACE: The reveal of the body only happens after a series of physical events that were extraordinarily difficult to orchestrate -

DUPPY DEMETRIUS: Mishaps.

RICK WALLACE: - From a production point of view. It worked out very well – but it was complicated.

ADAM BELANOFF: I realize that there’s much more that can be said once this episode airs – so perhaps we should revisit it then. I think it’ll be of some interest to people how we accomplished what we did.

JAMES DUFF: Yes. (A beat) Hopefully.

ADAM BELANOFF: Episode #413 is called “Power Of Attorney” and it was written by Michael Alaimo. Can’t give away any twists but I can say we also begin in an unusual way. It’s a very active scene –

MICHAEL ALAIMO: It’s a different opening than any we’ve done before. At the moment it starts we’re not aware that the crime is happening but it is – and there’s a pursuit. Shortly after that is where the show would normally start with the arrival of Brenda and the squad. The show’s mostly about the power of manipulation and it’s just a chess game of manipulations by Brenda –

JAMES DUFF: - And the attorney for the defense. I think it’s fair to say that she meets – in the attorney for her chief suspect – someone who is just as good at manipulating the justice system for suspects as she has been in manipulating the justice system to gain confessions. And she meets an attorney who is up to her skill level. And every time it looks like she’s about to make some progress, he does something that thwarts her. So ultimately it’s a series of jiu jitsus. I mean the justice system brings all the power it can gather into one place against this lawyer and he uses its collective weight to overturn it, over and over again until he gets the results that he wants. He fights for his client throughout the entire piece and Brenda’s not used to having to deal with an attorney like this.

ADAM BELANOFF: Is it fair to say that this episode played to the ambivalent feelings many of us have about the legal system?

JAMES DUFF: I don’t have ambivalent feelings. (Laughs) The justice system has an obligation to prove its case. And attorneys have an obligation to make the justice system prove its case. That’s how our system works. And if either side isn’t doing their job then the system can be badly manipulated. But I strongly believe that there’s not equal protection under the law in the way our justice system is currently configured. In that poor, indigent, minority suspects do not have the same access to justice that the well-off, privileged and white have. So I’m not ambivalent about it. I believe it’s a huge issue. But I do believe that both sides have a mission that is clearly understandable and that they both are required by the legal system – and obligated by their mission – to try and achieve those ends. Brenda’s feelings – and part of the reason she has the job she has – are not ambivalent. Her job in the justice system is not to ferret out innocence or guilt but to establish what she thinks is the truth. And those are two different things. Sitting in a courtroom and having two lawyers argue over your fate before a jury of your peers – that’s one thing. That’s not her job. Her job isn’t to decide whether or not you’re guilty but whether or not you should be under arrest, whether or not the facts indicate that you should be put on trial – and whether or not the justice system should be made to determine your fate. And that’s her goal. Her goal is to get the right person into the justice system.

MIKE BERCHEM: I have a different feeling probably about the justice system. I think it works very well. There are these aberrations that we see like the O.J. case and those are the ones that are plastered all over the news – we see it, we hear it. I’ve seen cases where people have murdered someone but there’s a very good reason and they end up with manslaughter. The justice system to me works fairly well being as big and as burdened as it is. I know there’s people in my past profession that would say, “It doesn’t work.” But in all the cases that I’ve done over the years, I have never had a ‘not guilty’ verdict. Some of them were guilty on manslaughter, some of them were sent to the death chamber. And every time I’ve had a verdict I’ve felt like it’s been listened to, it’s been studied and the evidence has been presented and it was fair and a decent verdict. That’s the way I feel about the justice system. It does work. And there are cases where it doesn’t work or hasn’t worked very well—

JAMES DUFF: It’s still the only system we have.

ADAM BELANOFF: How do you expect people will feel at the end of episode #413 and how would you like them to feel?

MICHAEL ALAIMO: Is it too much to say that just as the episode starts in a place we’ve never started before, it also ends in a place we’ve never ended before?

JAMES DUFF: I think that’s very fair to say. Rick, you directed it…

RICK WALLACE: For me the thing that was most interesting is that the ‘Power of Attorney’ – the name of the episode – is the power of the legal system and the way the legal system is manipulated when you have two master manipulators, Brenda being the one we most commonly identify with. And then someone comes into that universe who is as good. At least as good as she is at manipulating the system. And that battle is a titanic battle and what leads to that ending that Michael just spoke about.

ADAM BELANOFF: This episode in particular will leave people with a great mix of emotions.

MICHAEL ALAIMO: I felt a great mix of emotion in breaking the story.

MIKE BERCHEM: I had to go back on blood pressure medication.

RICK WALLACE: Brenda has lots and lots of alternatives that she tends to use to achieve her ends and in this particular episode this attorney is able to thwart them on a number of occasions in ways that are totally unexpected and very interesting and unusual.

JAMES DUFF: I think that people will view the ending with mixed emotions and that often happens on “The Closer.” That’s not new. Sometimes discovering the truth does not give you the catharsis that you expect. That happens on “The Closer” a lot actually although I think this will be an extreme version of that.

KEN MARTIN: And it happens in our legal system.

JAMES DUFF: It happens in our legal system too. You have a terrific lawyer in the case of O.J. Simpson and there are people who believe very fervently that O.J. was guilty. And yet the jury returned a verdict refuting that. So that attorney did his job. Now I didn’t have a catharsis at the end of that trial.

MICHAEL ALAIMO: But you bring up a good point that the way that Johnnie Cochran – that’s who you’re referring to – the way he got O.J. off was through drastic manipulation in the case.

JAMES DUFF: Yes. He was saying, “If the glove does not fit, you must acquit.”

MIKE BERCHEM: In some cases it’s like you play blackjack. You get a simple count to twenty-one. In other ones, you’re playing checkers which is a little more complicated. And some cases you’re playing a championship chess game that has all kinds of back and forth manipulation. Your episode, Mike, is definitely a huge chess game and Brenda Leigh plays it almost as good as the attorney does.

JAMES DUFF: I think she’s not allowed to play the game her own way. She’s interfered with. The justice system derails its own self in this when the district attorney gets involved.

ADAM BELANOFF: I understand your argument – and considering a case like O.J. Simpson’s, we might agree that the defendant had excellent lawyers. But if our sense is that the letter of the law was followed while larger principles were ignored – that the attorney is an officer of the court who ought to be seeking justice and not merely the most favorable outcome for a client –

JAMES DUFF: I don’t believe that O.J. Simpson’s attorneys were attempting to strike a blow for the justice system. I think they concealed their attempt to get their client off on murder charges in that guise. I think they pretended to be striking a blow for the justice system when what they were really trying to do was to get their client off in any way they possibly could. And they invented an entire new way of operating in defense of murders. And now because of the O.J. crime, police officers are having to do a ton of things they never had to do before. They have to anticipate the defense attorney while they’re investigating the murder and they added an extra burden to our justice system which I’m not sure it supports that well. But in this specific case, in the case we’re dealing with in #413, I think you have some question – you have some doubt about the attorney for the sex offender. He certainly presents himself as someone who is fighting for the principles of the justice system. And I think people will have to make up their own mind at the end whether or not that’s what he was actually doing. And I think you’ll be able to discern our own point of view about his ideas of the justice system. But he walks out still making the same claims – and I don’t think there’s what you would call an ordinary conclusion to that argument, just as there is not one in our society.

ADAM BELANOFF: Michael, was it hard to write in this man’s voice – and to put his arguments forward?

MICHAEL ALAIMO: No more or less hard than it is to write in anyone else’s voice. Which is to say, it’s always excruciating.

ADAM BELANOFF: Episode #414 is called “Fate Line” and was written by Steven Kane. It was also the second “Closer” episode directed by James. James, can you tell us how directing “Fate Line” compared to directing “Next Of Kin, Part 2?”

JAMES DUFF: There were big differences between directing the two episodes. With this last one, there was lots of down time while I was directing and I was so happy to have it. I mean, times when I’m just sitting there. And it’s just awesome, it’s wonderful. You can’t believe when you’re doing the show and production starts and it’s going sixty miles an hour – and you step off the train to actually shoot something and it’s like you’re in the slow lane in Kihei on Maui in a way. That was a fantastic experience and before, I had directed a very serious episode. I mean, there were light moments in it – but a very serious episode, the second part of our Christmas episodes last season.

MICHAEL ALAIMO: You had the ‘God voice.’

JAMES DUFF: I had the voice of God where I was broadcasting into the trailer and there was everything in that episode. In the previous episode there was green screen, we were shooting inside a trailer, we were doing robberies and there was a big shoot out at the end. There was a huge cast in this trailer plus a huge amount of crew. I had to rig up a microphone so I could speak to people without actually having to go into the trailer – which I later wanted to have at home and was told I couldn’t.

RICK WALLACE: What was the theme of #414?

JAMES DUFF: #414’s theme was about psychic powers and what real effect do they have in our lives. We took off from Mike Berchem’s observation that he had been a practicing homicide detective for most of his adult life and had worked with several psychics and had never, ever once had anything helpful come from it. And that he had never heard of anyone who had anyone help them via ESP or something of that sort. We also wanted to introduce Fritz’s sister. We know Brenda’s family very well. And we wanted to get closer to the idea of the wedding either happening or not happening. And we decided to combine these two ideas by having Fritz’s sister be as unlike him as possible which often happens in families. Fritz is a rational, reasonable, down to earth kind of guy – and his sister turns out to be flighty, moving from career to career settling in the psychic arena. I would call her hyper-spiritual and new age.

ADAM BELANOFF: And that character is played by Amy Sedaris. How was directing her?

JAMES DUFF: (Laughs) Amy Sedaris was like a firecracker and she was a lot of fun. And she vividly brought this character to life. Her relationship with Michael Paul Chan and Tony Denison and Provenza and even Buzz – it was really interesting. She created some very vivid relationships while she was working. Brenda invited her to work a case more as a lark and more as a favor to Fritz than anything else – and she ends up having some influence.

ADAM BELANOFF: Do you imagine we might be seeing her again?

JAMES DUFF: I think it’s very possible although she has her own show – she’s doing a pilot right now – but yes, I think it’s very possible that Amy might come back.

ADAM BELANOFF: Are you able to step out of your writer shoes when directing?

JAMES DUFF: I don’t see the two as separate. In my experience, they’re a continuation of the same process. What I like is the ability to say on the set, “You know what? I don’t need that line.” And the actors feel when we’re doing the scene that the whole process becomes foreshortened by my experience with the script and my time with it and our time with each other. I know the cast very well after all this time. Or I feel like I know them very well.

ADAM BELANOFF: Are there any disadvantages to not being a director for hire, someone coming in and seeing the script for the first time in pre-production?

JAMES DUFF: Yes , there are – because I’m limited to my own point of view. And I think a really great director comes in and brings in their point of view. But I didn’t write this script. And I had Steven on set with me. And he is not shy about saying what he thinks – although sometimes he gives you a note after you’re finished shooting one side of a scene. (The room laughs)

STEVEN KANE: I don’t like to give a suggestion when it’s relevant. That seems pushy.

JAMES DUFF: So it’s… “Yeah, that would have been very helpful an hour ago. But now we’re on the other side.” But other than that, he’s a lot of fun on the set. And he’s terrific. What’s great about Steven is that he’s not at all shy about telling you what he believes the scene should be. And so you have a good conversation about it and very often he’s right. In the last episode, I felt I was only doing what I had imagined – and sometimes I think a really good director can come in and do better than you had imagined. I mean, sometimes they do less than you had imagined and you have to deal with that as well. But most of the time you’re working with someone who’s experienced and really good. I don’t think I would like to act on the show at all. I’d be nervous about doing that. Directing is the only other place I could go.

STEVEN KANE: What’s great about collaboration – especially with this writing staff and these actors and crew members – is that the whole is far greater than the sum of the parts. James brought new insight into scenes I’d written, and the actors add another layer, and the costumers, cinematographer, props and art departments, hair and make-up , etc., all add other layers. But James always made sure we were all on the same page, which made the product deep and varied but also consistent.

ADAM BELANOFF: James, you’ll be directing other upcoming episodes.

JAMES DUFF: Yes, I’ll be directing once next year.

ADAM BELANOFF: Episode #415 is called “Double Blind” written by Leo Geter and Ken Martin. The theme of the episode is –

JAMES DUFF: The power of our primary relationship.

RICK WALLACE: Those last five episodes are all leading up to the idea of primary relationship and commitment. Not to say where we’re going with that notion – but that is what ties them all together – with the possible exception of “Power Of Attorney.” What ties them together – from fantasy to primary relationship to fate.

LEO GETER: #415 is really a story about identity and how we’re shaped by our primary relationships, how we view ourselves. And when those relationships are at a crossroads, which route you’re going to take, who you become and who you resist becoming. There’s a lot of resistance in the story in some ways.

KEN MARTIN: Both sides. Both the crime and the personal. So the overlapping theme really crosses into both.

LEO GETER: We’re dealing with call girls and their business and how that business works. I think there are some interesting revelations there, for the audience to see how that all goes together – and how that particular story that we’re working with, how the perpetrators of that crime are enmeshed in their own identity issues – and their own primary relationships. And how those things are motivating them to do what they’re doing. It mirrors our own desire to keep a private self even when we’re in an intimate relationship. How do you preserve that which is at your core and still give yourself over?

JAMES DUFF: And can you do that? Can you preserve that – or should you even?

LEO GETER: And is that attractive or desirable to the other person even? Certainly every relationship is different.

KEN MARTIN: What James said about getting to that point of even asking, “Can I even do this?” And that resonates really strongly in this episode. Without giving anything away…

LEO GETER: It is the season finale.

ADAM BELANOFF: Were there any great revelations in researching this material? Or anything that really surprised you in the writing of the episode?

JAMES DUFF: How respectful the police were of escorts.

KEN MARTIN: Also, Mike (Berchem)’s inspiration for this story. It was very interesting, just that world of escorts and we’re going to take you into that world and how completely right in front of us it is – but actually you don’t even see it. You’re going to be surprised at like, “What?! They do that?! That happens there?!”

LEO GETER: There’s a series of stories that people tell themselves to justify that job, not unlike most of us tell ourselves stories. But the way they perceive themselves versus the way the outside world would perceive them don’t necessarily sync up. And that’s interesting. And at the same time, in the course of telling this story there’s manipulation that takes place along that fault line. There’s an attempt at gaining empathy or sympathy for the plight of the person who’s in that position based on how they know they’re perceived.

ADAM BELANOFF: Leo, you came on during the last third of season four. When we finish this discussion, we’ll return to breaking season five’s fourth episode, the first which you’ll be writing by yourself. Can you tell us how working on “The Closer” and writing for Brenda Leigh Johnson has differed from other professional experiences you’ve had?

LEO GETER: It’s the first experience that I’ve had where I’ve come into something that’s already been up and running. I guess I’d say I’m a little surprised at how long it’s taken to get in the mindset of it. I thought it was something I could just observe for a little bit and be right into the flow of. But it’s more difficult than that because the characters are so developed and I think internalized by everybody else. I have to work harder at playing Brenda. But I feel like I’ve gotten good training runs with Duppy and with Ken who know the show better. It’s really about finding the voice of that character and the way she thinks and having the most fun with that that you can. Because that’s the entertaining part of it. And I think I’m ready to do that by myself. But I have more confidence to do it now, for sure. I think I didn’t realize quite how hard that would be because the other shows I’ve been on I’ve been on from the outset. So there was no dark area. It was all clear because it was there from the inception.

ADAM BELANOFF: People won’t know unless they go through your IMDB credits but you had a life as an actor before you began writing, many illustrious credits including a film role supporting someone else we know well, Kevin Bacon. Can you tell us what you bring to your writing as an actor? LEO GETER: It’s an interesting question because sometimes I think I need to take an acting class to remember what acting is like because believe it or not, you can actually forget how hard it is. Being on the other side for a number of years now, you can forget how on the spot difficult that job is when the time comes to do it. So I always try to remind myself of that. And the thing that helps the actor the most in that moment is a scene that they can play. If you can write them in such a way that they have action and they have something that they’re going for, that they have obstacles that they’re trying to achieve in the scene, then there’s something to play. And they’re less lost. They’re easier to direct. The day goes faster. Everything goes better if you think in terms of what makes acting work. And so that does help. And that’s sort of my first language. I tend to – I hope I think in those terms. Sometimes it gets muddied up with other concerns. With the plot…

JAMES DUFF: The story…

LEO GETER: Network notes, whatever. Something extraneous. But generally, that’s the advantage of that.

ADAM BELANOFF: Rick, you joined mid-season last year as an executive producer. TV fans may know that you’ve got many, many credits going back before “LA Law” and several big shows since then. How would you compare “The Closer’ to other shows where you’ve had a similar role?

RICK WALLACE: Probably the most specific difference on this show is that the other shows that I’ve done have not really had the kind of single, personal lead that this show has. I have done shows where there have been single leads but they’ve never been as clearly delineated as Brenda’s character is – largely because of the meld between James and Kyra slash Brenda. So for me as a director on the show and in my producing function too, my directing point of view and my producing point of view are not very different. Everything for me emanates from the point of view of the central character who is Brenda and I mean that in terms of the cases and personally. So the clarity of that delineation is what differentiates it for me and it’s been the biggest joy for me and the most attractive thing about doing this show. Because there’s a channel that I can ride as a director.

JAMES DUFF: I think it makes the show easier to write. And I’m surprised. And the reason I say that is I’ve been working on a pilot where there is not a single lead. I’m literally having to follow multiple stories in a way and having to follow multiple characters in a way that I haven’t done in a long time. And I have been reading a lot of novels lately and especially “Jane Austen.” And while you sometimes visit another person’s point of view, you are squarely with the heroine throughout the novel. And my favorite books of recent years are the “Harry Potter” books and you are so completely with Harry Potter the whole way. I think that’s a very attractive formula.

RICK WALLACE: And I think that when we lose that – and we have lost it, we’ve had stories that didn’t quite reflect that, maybe we tried to tell too much or we had directors come in who went off on a tangent. It’s not as satisfying I think to the audience.

ADAM BELANOFF: But there are times when you do want to open the world up – and that’s difficult to do in a show where you have such a clear, central focus.

JAMES DUFF: And I think that obviously Michael Alaimo’s episode did that. We opened up the show setting up her entrance – and in Duppy and Leo’s show, we opened the show setting up their entrance. I think we’re at a place now where we can do that because the audience knows Brenda’s coming. You can set the stage for her a little bit. Before, she arrives within the first minute. And now maybe she arrives in minute three. In “Cherry Bomb” we have an entire interview without her that takes place in the past. We do a little time switch. And that was a huge scene with Robert Gossett early on and it began to set the stage for letting other characters do that – like Sanchez in the death of his brother where you have the entire opening sequence without her. She appears at the end of that sequence. It’s about Sanchez – but it’s also about her and it’s about their relationship. And I think that Rick is quite right to point out that you’re traveling through this story with the protagonist. And you’re dealing with the story through her eyes. And it’s really how do you manage that?

RICK WALLACE: Because even if you go off somewhere and you’ve been telling a story about Robert for a while, for instance, you have to chart where she is because when she dovetails back into the storyline, we really will make a shift over to what her essential point of view is wherever we’ve been.

LEO GETER: It’s like the pregnancy of her absence. The absence is her too.

JAMES DUFF: Yes. Exactly. You’re defining her problem usually.

ADAM BELANOFF: We’ll come back to #411 and “Good Faith” but before we do, I wanted to ask Mike Berchem -- before you began consulting on “The Closer,” for roughly thirty years you were a homicide detective for the LAPD, much of that time in an elite unit similar to Priority Homicide. In the past several months you’ve retired from your detective work to join us full time. How do these jobs compare?

MIKE BERCHEM: Well, I don’t have to worry about getting called at one o’clock in the morning. That’s the nicest part.

JAMES DUFF: That’s because you don’t work with Barbra Streisand. (The room laughs)

MIKE BERCHEM: What I like about it is that it’s almost like therapy for me. I’ve seen hundreds and hundreds of horrific things. I think I’ve managed through them fairly well but I never really get to talk about it all that much. So I can sit in this room and I have six or eight therapists asking me questions about this and I’m able to get off my chest some of the emotions involved in being a homicide detective. In my experience of watching them on television, some shows have done very well and other shows don’t do very well in the sense that the story of what happens to people when they do this kind of stuff day in and day out, the emotions of doing a case are strong. Some cases have some humor to them. Even though it’s death, even though it’s dark, it’s got humor. There are other cases that have no humor to them. And in this show when I try to express that, it’s all ears. I feel very comfortable saying some of the emotional stuff that goes on. Everybody listens and I think it’s reflected well in the scripts and well in the stories and well in the directing and well in the editing, that we see that.

ADAM BELANOFF: One of the most powerful episodes that we’ve done on the series, “Critical Missing,” came directly from a case with which you were intimately involved and which you solved – the double murder of a woman and her child by that woman’s husband. What was it like watching your recollections of that incident translated into the episode it became?

MIKE BERCHEM: That particular case, first of all there was a child involved and for any detective those are probably the toughest cases that you have. And there’s never a good reason for a murder – I shouldn’t probably say that, there’s some valid reasons for murder sometimes or I should say, more valid – the senselessness of that particular case and a child being involved is a tough one right from the beginning. The perpetrator of the crime, the father, the husband, was very good at answering the questions. His party line on all of the questions was right down the middle. It throws you back every time you thought you had him on something, he had an answer for it. I send my thanks to whomever that in normal situations, people that we’re interviewing are not that intelligent so it’s easier to get to our bottom line. This guy – I don’t know if he was intelligent or he was just a good pathological liar but he could think on his feet. So as this show was done and I’m reading the outline and reading the script and I’m remembering how that went, and the way Rick (Wallace) ended up directing it, it was done almost like the real-life story. It was very, very well-done. To me it was a fabulous show about deception and the tragedy of losing a beautiful little five year-old girl and her mother for no reason other than he had a new girlfriend and he had to move on in life. But when you have children involved or helpless people as in elderly people the murders are a lot more serious and a lot more haunting.

ADAM BELANOFF: I wanted to bring it back around to “Good Faith,” #411 before we end. Thinking about it, there’s a lot that separates it from the other shows. It’s our first one back after a several month break in airing, we bring Brenda’s parents in, we’ve got a giant cliff hanger resolving with Sanchez…

JAMES DUFF: -- who was shot several times.

ADAM BELANOFF: -- Right. And for me – and I hope it’s appropriate to bring this up – and it’s something we don’t really talk about too much in these sorts of roundtables – but much as we want to be able to do our jobs the same way no matter what is going on outside this room, sometimes we’re faced with personal challenges. For me, when I think back about this episode, the writing of it and the making of it, what I will remember most is how I leaned on everyone else here, particularly James when I needed his help. All of this stuff is invisible, I hope, to the viewing audience – but when I will reflect on this show, the defining, dominant memory will be how much assistance I received from you all, pulling it together.

JAMES DUFF: Honestly, I think it’s ironic that you were writing an episode about the power of faith to get us through the bad times and the power of the body at the same time as you and your wife were experiencing a significant loss. It’s cruel sometimes the way fate deals out these things but you’re right, people don’t know at all and hopefully it’s not visible on screen. And you’re right, it shouldn’t be visible on screen. But we function as a unit, as a team in here. God, there was a lot to do in that episode. There’s a personal health crisis, the Sanchez story is partially resolved, Brenda is planning her wedding – ADAM BELANOFF: -- There’s a lot of story. No doubt. But pulling back a bit from talking about these individual episodes and the larger thematic arc of the fourth season, I’m continually struck by how well this group functions and how diverse this collection of personalities and talents are. Having been on many different shows with their individual rooms, it seems to me extremely unusual that a group is as mutually supportive and for people to have come together in this way.

LEO GETER: As the newest person on, I would make the same observation. I think that’s very true. And that the collective mind of the show is the ultimate goal. And with the group is where the energy goes. It’s about that.

JAMES DUFF: I have never been in a room where the show-runner got so little respect. (The room laughs) And I wanted to add one other thing and that is that when Mike Berchem comes in here, he is a settling influence and also a fantastic collaborator. I think it’s hard to underestimate his value in keeping the room steady and that’s because his idea of a bad day is so completely different from what the rest of us have to deal with. I remember Mike walking into my office more than two years ago all shaken up, even still at this late stage of the game, by a violent murder he had gone to investigate where three people had been stabbed to death, one trying to escape, a young girl. That’s a bad day. You know, the worst thing you face coming into the room here at “The Closer” is that we’re going to have a hard time getting through the story –

DUPPY DEMETRIUS: Or being berated by Michael Alaimo.

JAMES DUFF: Or having Michael Alaimo make fun of you.

LEO GETER: Or forgetting to order lunch until lunch time.

JAMES DUFF: Or getting lunch very late – which reminds us that before we do anything else, we have to order lunch. But I think that’s a significant difference in Mike Berchem’s life. Maybe he’ll adapt to our standards and think a bad day is having to re-work an act.

MIKE BERCHEM: Or when my latte is not exactly one-hundred and twenty degrees.

STEVEN KANE: Oh, I hate that. People get fired for that kind of thing.

JAMES DUFF: But so far he’s been a fantastic influence in helping us keep a good perspective on our work. And I feel we’re very lucky to have him.

RICK WALLACE: And he creates infrastructure without which we would be flying off into all kinds of other directions.

JAMES DUFF: We would be much less authentic. We don’t have to worry about authenticity.

MIKE BERCHEM: That goes back to you guys listening.

JAMES DUFF: We do listen.

LEO GETER: And that comes back to you never repeating yourself.

JAMES DUFF: In a very fluid way. It’s like, how can we make this authentic and work at the same time?

DUPPY DEMETRIUS: Group hug, everybody?

ADAM BELANOFF: Mike, we’re into the fifth season – and it doesn’t seem like we’re halfway through your well of stories.

LEO GETER: How do you know that?

ADAM BELANOFF: We’re still hearing horrible new recollections every single day.

MIKE BERCHEM: The other day I went out for a drive-along with Corey Reynolds for the fourth season DVD. And I thought, “Where do I want to take him?” I started at one I remembered because it was like the second murder I did back in 1986 and it was in Hollywood so we didn’t have far to drive. And as I stood there and looked down the street, I thought we were going to have to do a lot of driving but we stayed in like an eight block area and we talked about fifteen different murders. I just forgot about them because we had done so many of these things. (Laughs) And I don’t mean to laugh with disrespect for victims but somebody will say something and all of a sudden I’ll say, “Oh, I remember that one.” But there’s been a lot of them. A lot of them.

STEVEN KANE: Your nightmares are our gold.

JAMES DUFF: Every trip down memory lane for Mike Berchem leads through a cemetery…

And a menu is passed around and lunch is ordered…